Talk:Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in to an extended confirmed account (granted automatically to accounts with 500 edits and an age of 30 days)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Restrictions placed: 18 April 2021

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7: 3 months

This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

India: History / Politics Top‑importance

	India portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Indian history workgroup (assessed as Top-importance).
	This article is supported by the Indian politics workgroup (assessed as Top-importance).
	This article was last assessed in July 2020.

Politics High‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Conservatism Top‑importance

	Conservatism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hinduism Top‑importance

	Hinduism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hinduism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HinduismWikipedia:WikiProject HinduismTemplate:WikiProject HinduismHinduism
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Asian / British / European / Indian / South Asia C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Asian military history task force
	British military history task force
	European military history task force
	Indian military history task force
	South Asian military history task force

Organizations High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Organizations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Organizations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OrganizationsWikipedia:WikiProject OrganizationsTemplate:WikiProject Organizationsorganization
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Guild of Copy Editors

This article was copy edited by Corinne, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on 31 May 2017.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors

Paramilitary?

By Wikipedia's own definition "A paramilitary is a military that is not part of a country's official or legitimate armed forces." RSS is not a social and cultural organization, it's not an armed paramilitary organization. This is totally bizarre and misleading characterization. It is a legal organization within India and they're not armed or trained like soldiers. Yasarhossain07 (talk) 16:56, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. If no objections, I'd like to remove this by end of week.

In general, this article is full of NPOV violations even if yes the characterizations are sourced by some book I can't readily access. Calling the RSS a "far-right" group is also quite questionable (the BJP typically wins over a third of the vote in India - it's solidly in the mainstream), and I can only find rather left-wing sources making that claim. Usaar33 (talk) 21:22, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, please omit the word paramilitary for describing the RSS Deepti du 27 (talk) 20:16, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

the use of the word "paramilitary" is backed by several well known sources and any removal in the introductory part of the article should only be done through a vote. DataCrusade1999 (talk) 13:28, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Majority is not always right. Freedom of speech and bill of rights are there to protect (minority's) truth. 139.5.26.66 (talk) 05:45, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please familiarize yourself with how Wikipedia works. Wikipedia is not the place to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. We report what the WP:RELIABLESOURCES say, that's it. Brusquedandelion (talk) 12:13, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not decided via a WP:VOTE, but otherwise I agree with you. Brusquedandelion (talk) 12:22, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paramilitary word is gross mischaracterization of the organisation and has to be removed. 139.5.26.66 (talk) 05:41, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but the WP:RELIABLESOURCES disagree. Brusquedandelion (talk) 12:13, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but Wikipedia is not written based on your personal opinions. It is based on what the reliable sources say. And, need I remind you, the Brownshirts was a perfectly legal organization. Brusquedandelion (talk) 12:21, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Its not a paramilitary at all. It's just volunteer. MrLogikal (talk) 15:26, 18 March 2025 (UTC)~~ Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rahil1610[reply]

Everything that is written here is backed by reliable sources and some facts are even backed by scholarly consensus, bring reliable sources to back your claim even better bring scholarly sources. DataCrusade1999 (talk) 17:12, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There are lots of miss information

to defame RSS there are lots of misinformation. Give the option to edit. Santanu243 (talk) 03:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — Newslinger talk 03:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

what changes you want to be made? Its not clear PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:46, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~It's not a far right, paramilitary or anti Muslim. It's Hindu nationalist organisation but not a far right paramilitary. MrLogikal (talk) 15:26, 18 March 2025 (UTC)~~ Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rahil1610[reply]

It is indeed a far-right paramilitary force. That is a very well known fact, and in this article, the fact is backed by a lot of reliable, third party, neutral sources and references EarthDude (talk) 16:32, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@EarthDude No it's not a paramilitary. It's been added a few months ago. Although recent academics have debunked these things like it used to be described earlier decades. MrLogikal (talk) 16:35, 18 March 2025 (UTC) Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rahil1610[reply]

bring reliable sources to back up your claims. Most of what's written here is backed up by reliable sources. DataCrusade1999 (talk) 17:15, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@DataCrusade1999 paramilitary is added recently by somebody. It wasn't earlier. It works under the law of India, It doesn't do military exercises, don't own arms. How can it be a paramilitary.? MrLogikal (talk) 02:23, 21 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

~~https://www.livemint.com/news/india/inside-the-rss-the-world-s-most-powerful-volunteer-group-11734746314678.html~~

~~https://wenewsenglish.pk/rss-the-biggest-and-most-powerful-volunteer-organisation-of-the-world/ MrLogikal (talk) 02:27, 21 March 2025 (UTC)~~[reply]

~~@DataCrusade1999 President if India has visited the office of RSS. It's not an paramilitary, It's just volunteer. Well here's one of the source.~~

~~https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2024/12/19/inside-the-rss-the-worlds-most-powerful-volunteer-group MrLogikal (talk) 02:25, 21 March 2025 (UTC)~~ Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rahil1610[reply]

None of you sources are analyzing the paramilitary aspect of the RSS most of your sources are concerned with the functioning of the RSS and their political influence. DataCrusade1999 (talk) 05:45, 21 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@DataCrusade1999 It's not paramilitary at all. How can it be a paramilitary if it's running freely. What do you think a paramilitary means? Paramilitary is having military exercises and having arms. But it's doesn't work like that. MrLogikal (talk) 09:45, 21 March 2025 (UTC) Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rahil1610[reply]

It is a paramilitary force. Paramilitaries are militaries or militaristic forces that are not directly under the control and/or ownership of countries. The RSS fits the definition perfectly. But just because they're not under the state's ownership, does not mean they can't function freely all the time. The RSS works freely in India because the ruling party has close ties with it, and supports it. But it is a paramilitary because it is not under the control of the Indian state EarthDude (talk) 10:27, 21 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you. DataCrusade1999 (talk) 10:38, 21 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a paramilitary and anti-mulsim

~~Its baseless, it works under the constitution of India, it's not a paramilitary. and also not anti-muslim. Need to remove such biased claims MrLogikal (talk) 15:25, 18 March 2025 (UTC)~~ Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rahil1610[reply]

It may be anti-muslim but as far as being paramilitary, I am not sure that lathi exercises count as military / arms training.My two cents. Jonathansammy (talk) 21:17, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Jonathansammy Yes absolutely. It runs under law of India, can't be a paramilitary organisation. They are called volunteers. They don't do military exercises they don't own any arms . MrLogikal (talk) 02:22, 21 March 2025 (UTC) Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rahil1610[reply]

A paramilitary doesnt have to be a full fledged military. If it is militaristic even, then it can also be defined as a paramilitary. A well known definition of it is "a group or organization that is organized and functions like a military, but is not part of a country's official armed forces". The RSS fits this definition. It has a hierarchical and militaristic command structure, conducts regular training camps and regimented combat drills and marches, and has been involved in violent incidents and activities before. Most importantly, a flood of reliable sources used in the article describe the organization as a paramilitary. EarthDude (talk) 11:08, 21 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I know what is paramilitary. that's why i objected to it. Well, many of them are generally cited to term the article only in negative way. Many of outlets are there which doesn't say it's paramilitary. MrLogikal (talk) 12:08, 21 March 2025 (UTC) Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rahil1610[reply]

"I know what is a paramilitary" — see? This is your problem. I bring academic and journalistic references to the table, you attempt to insert your personal, opinionated, analysis into articles. And just because you can find an outlet that omits a particular fact doesn't mean you can exclude it from the article. That's known as selection bias. Furthermore, just because a source doesn't say something doesn't mean it says the opposite. Do you really have reliable sources stating the RSS isn't a paramilitary? I doubt it! 1101 (talk) 04:33, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And this paramilitary term was added by recently i think on every place where their members reach high post for example PMs and other without any discussion. MrLogikal (talk) 12:11, 21 March 2025 (UTC) Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rahil1610[reply]

According to the Library of Congress, "The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), also known the Sangh, is a right-wing Hindu nationalist, paramilitary, volunteer, and allegedly militant organization in India." 1101 (talk) 04:29, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

how can racist hinduphobic americans comment about indians be used as a reliable source. Sarvagyalal (talk) 03:25, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Biased

RSS never supported the British , these are just baseless claims by congress party. Also RSS has done rescue work in floods like kedarnath in 2013( even congress party knows that) which is not mentioned in this article. https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/opinion/how-rss-played-an-important-role-in-indias-freedom-struggle-12734055.html RSS does not use weapons so they cant be paramilitary. Please dont use sources which are biased against India (like washington post, the wire )and promote Hinduphobia . Sarvagyalal (talk) 03:21, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

RSS AND FREEDOM STRUGGLE

according to the article of the Print https://theprint.in/india/rss-founder-hedgewar-was-with-congress-and-other-facts-you-didnt-know/387491/

RSS Founder Hedgewar was an active member against british and an ex-congress member who was arrested in 1921 and 1931 for raising voices against british. this article on wikipedia against rss is half true as rss founders participated in freedom struggle which was lead by Lal - bal - pal . though they did not participate in quit india movement by gandhi Sarvagyalal (talk) 04:25, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]