Talk:Oblate

General comments

1) It must be made immediately obvious to the non-specialist reader (e.g. in the title) that this article deals with Oblates secular, not Oblates regular. Oblates regular merit a separate article, at the very least a separate chapter.

2) Re: "Oblates promise..." - Some editing needed, for example:

After a time of preparation, the successful candidate will be permitted by the superior of the Benedictine House of his/her choice to make an act of Oblation, a rite approved by the Church, which takes the form of a promise. Although appropriately, but not necessarily, it may be made during Holy Mass and thus in the presence not only of sponsors/witnesses but any number of faithful, it is technically a private promise that has no force in Canon Law. The Oblate Promise is usually annually renewable, depending on the custom of the House; and if an Oblate at some stage decides not to renew it, it is not a sin according to Church Law. By his/her promise the Oblate becomes affiliated with that particular Benedictine House and commits himself/herself to apply to his/her life the letter and spirit of the Rule of St Benedict insofar as his/her circumstances and prior commitments permit.

(It may be thought helpful to state the difference between a private promise and a public vow.)

3) The author of the article refers to whole families being affiliated with a Benedictine House. This may well be the case. However, it should be made clear that this is not like taking out a family membership! There is no "collective free will decision". Each individual member of such a family would have had to make his/her own private promise.

4) Titles ought to be quoted according to convention, i.e. with place and year of publication (ISBN optional). Total number of pages not a convention.

Portress 09:10, 13 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

P.S.: Apologies: please delete "wikifying" from previous edit comment.

Portress 09:25, 13 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

COPYRIGHT WARNING

Most of this article is copyrighted material imported wholesale from the website of the Order of St Benedict. I am replacing the text with material from the public domain Catholic Encyclopedia and moving the whole thing to Oblate (religion) to distinguish from the spheroid with a shorter axis and two equal longer axes and to broaden the scope to include Oblates (secular), Oblates (regular), and non-Benedictine oblates. Please feel free to add non-copyrighted material from earlier edits to the new version. JHCC 16:08, 13 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The above proposed text (cf. No. 2) has not been purloined. This article is at the bottom of my priority list. Anyone getting to editing it before I have the time for it, please feel free to use part or whole of same text.

Portress / Portress 09:55, 15 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Limitation to RC Church wrong

A general point that needs to be remembered is the Reformation, that is to say, thereafter the Anglicans in England and the Prostestants on the Continent did not start from scratch in matters of organzisation. The break was doctrinally.

So, as regards oblates, whilst they have a pre-Reformation history, hence a Roman Catholic one, there are today Anglican Houses that have oblates (secular), e.g. Elmore Abbey in Berkshire. A well-known Anglican oblate is the religious author Esther de Waal. A number of other oblate related writings are from the pens of Anglicans. Furthermore, Edgware and Elmore each state in the Benedictine Yearbook 2005 that they have an "Intern Oblate", presumably an Oblate (regular). To the best of my knowledge Lutherans, too, have oblates (e.g. for all I know the scholar Karl Heinrich Rengstorff was one).

Portress 23:10, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate

The Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate are a religious order (i.e. "Consecrated Life" according to Church Law) and therefore do not seem to me to belong here (unless this is styled a disambiguation page). They are not oblates like the oblates (secular) and (regular), neither of which are a religious order, not even a "tertiary order" (i.e. not "Consecrated Life" according to Church Law).

Same applies to e.g. the Oblates of St Francis of Rome (founded 1433 in Italy) and the Benedictine Oblates of St Scholastica (founded 1944 in Italy) – both religious orders, thus Consecrated Life.

(Incidentally, occasionally oblates (secular) have organised themselves more formally into a group, not merely a monthly/quarterly get together for instruction by the monastery's Oblate Master/Mistress and annual spiritual retreat, as is usually the case; but such more formal organziation does not seem to be too common. In any case, oblateship is always an individual's affiliation with a monastery, not with the other oblates of the same monastery).

Portress 23:51, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Since this page deals with (simply put) religious people called Oblates, I'd suggest having two overall sections:

traditional oblates (including Oblates (secular) and Oblates (regular); i.e., oblates who have attached themselves to a monastery or convent, and
Orders with "Oblate" in their name, such as the Missionary Oblates, Oblates of St Francis, etc.

That way we can keep everything on one page while still preserving the distinction. JHCC 13:19, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Adding a redirect from Obl. ?

My searching for the meaning of "Obl." took a lot of work around to finally get to the "Oblate" article. Possibly a mention of it, or a redirect seems feasible.

Use of the term "Middle Ages"

The paragraph on changes in the meaning of the term conversus begins with a reference to the year 1625. The next sentence, however, begins "Then, in the later Middle Ages". As the "middle ages" are generally agreed to end around the year 1500, this is an incorrect or misleading use of the term. Thus, either the year 1625 is incorrect, or else another term needs to be substituted for "middle ages." Spiritquest (talk) 21:02, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Anglican oblates ?

Are there really anglican oblates ? Are there even anglican monasteries ? O Kolymbitès (talk) 16:52, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Before the age of 10

Could someone verify this claim that the church actually ended the practice of accepting child oblates before the age of 10? The fact that a council calls for it is not proof that the church followed the decrees of the council and actually put a practical end to the practice.

I have seen several modern historians that have written about the existence of the practice in the 10th and 11th centuries. Thomas Aquinas was given to Monte Cassino when he was 5 according to the Wikipedia article. So was Eadburh of Winchester given to be raised by nuns at the age of 3. Reesorville (talk) 12:23, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Edits by User:MarieAnneLee

User:MarieAnneLee, due to concerns regarding copyright violations, along with inaccurate information, I have removed content that you have added to this article. Though the particularly Benedictine monastery that you associate with may make a distinction between Catholics and Protestants who are oblates (calling the latter "associates"), the majority do not. For example, what is necessary to be an oblate at Saint Meinrad Archabbey is that one is a baptized Christian, as noted here. Likewise, Saint Benedict's Monastery (St. Joseph, Minnesota) states:

Can I be an oblate if I am a baptized member of another Christian faith denomination other than Roman Catholic?
Yes, you can. There are Benedictine oblates who are from other Christian faith traditions.

The information you added is therefore misleading and I have reverted your changes. Please gain consensus on this talk page before reintroducing any content to the article. Thank you. Anupam^Talk 20:43, 12 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have invited User:Indyguy to comment here as he is active in other WikiProject Christianity-related articles. Anupam^Talk 20:47, 12 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

User:MarieAnneLee, I have balanced the information that you have added and removed information that is inaccurate. The information about Christians of other denominations being Associates is only the policy of Ampleforth Abbey. This has been made clear in the article now. Additionally, there is no need to specify "Special Roman Catholic Benedictine Oblate Days" when "Special Benedictine Oblate Days" is sufficient, given that there are Lutheran Benedictines, Anglican Benedictines, etc. and these would apply to all. Anupam^Talk 21:46, 12 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for reading the information provided. Please cite your exact copyright violation concerns. An intellectual property attorney in the USA reviewed and had no concerns. And please provide your copyright attorney information so that the attorneys can discuss your concerns.

As to inaccuracies, please provide your Canon Law attorney from any country that has advised you about the law on Roman Catholicism. In the Catholic Faith, Catholic associations (which is what Oblates are) are not free to make policies in contradiction to the Catholic Catechism and Canon Law and the Vatican. All Catholic Abbeys MUST follow the order of Precedence, thus the Vatican Decrees and Canonical Rules take precedence, the Vatical Statutes take precedence, and those documents which have been reviewed, studied, and found to be completely consistent with the Catholic Faith take precedence. (This last precedence is noted with the authorization statement, the authorized reviewers name, and the authorization training. So, for example, the Oblate Manual referenced has "Nihil Obstat" by a "Censor Depurtatus;" "Imprimi Potest" by an "Abbas Sti. Joannis Baptiste," and "Imprimatur" by "Episcopus Coadjutor Sti. Clodoaldi.) A website of an abbey has no authorization to represent official Catholic Faith in so much as it directly contradicts the Catholic Faith. The information provided by the user MarieAnneLee is accurate.

You are incorrect that non-Roman Catholics may be Catholic Oblates. They might be "illicit" or "illegal" Oblates who have not sought, have not been provided, or choose to ignore the Statute of Oblates and Roman Catholic teachings explaining why they are not Oblates. If they are ignorant, it is incumbent upon them to seek the proper information and seek correction of their status. Once made aware of the improper association title, they may ask an abbey to correct illicit oblation documents. Note that monks will pray for all who are associated with an abbey, including non-Catholic members of a Benedictine community, and also many Muslim refugees for whom they provide protection.

PLEASE RETURN THE OBLATE SITE TO THE LAST VERSION MADE BY THE user MarieAnneLee.

This includes your edits to Special Days. There is A need to specify "Special Roman Catholic Benedictine Oblate Days" because this is articulated by the Roman Catholic Vatican. It is inaccurate, illogical, and disrespectful to other religions to assume that those autonomous faiths also follow Vatican laws. If however you do find other religions' authorized teachings adopting the Vatican laws for Roman Catholic Oblates, please add those reference.

Should you be moved to further edit the Oblate wiki entry, it would be prudent to consult a Canon attorney to better understand why a position may or may not be the authorized Roman Catholic position. As to consensus on Roman Catholic teachings, it is not decided by popular vote of lay people. It is decided by the Vatican after years of study and agreement among scholars and the ordained. MarieAnneLee (talk) 00:02, 13 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

User:MarieAnneLee, certain sentences, such as those found in the lede did appear to be copied from this website. However, I have fixed that. Unfortunately, your claim is cerainly incorrect. There are several websites of various Catholic monasteries in the Benedictine tradition that accept oblates of various Christian denominations. Per WP:RS and WP:V, I have provided examples of these references (Exhibit A, Exhibit B, Exhibit C, and Exhibit D). The one website that you provided from Ampleforth Abbey only reflects the practice of that monastery. Wikipedia will reflect the reality of the situation, which is that most Catholic monasteries accept oblates of various denominations, rather than the view of one monastery. Your view that this "directly contradicts the Catholic Faith" is your personal WP:POV and unfortunately, Wikipedia articles must reflect all views provided in reliable sources. The article as it stands now reflects that while many Catholic monasteries accept non-Catholic Christians as oblates, some Catholic monasteries may only permit non-Catholic Christians to become Associates. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 02:15, 13 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]